Former Office of Management and Budget Director Mick Mulvaney said in an interview Friday that during the Jan. 6, 2021, riot at the Capitol, a “friend” in the White House said then-Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows showed incompetence and had a “mental breakdown ” because of the ensuing chaos just blocks away.
In an interview with CBS News, Mulvaney, who served as acting White House chief of staff from January 2019 to March 2020 before Meadows succeeded him, expressed confidence in testimony given late last month to Cassidy Hutchinson, Meadows’ former aide. Testifying before the House committee investigating the riots.
Mulvaney said that when Hutchinson testified before the committee, she claimed that former President Donald Trump tried to grab the steering wheel of his SUV when he asked to be taken to the Capitol on Jan. 6 and that he texted a friend in the West. It was held on Jan. 6.
“I said, ‘If I listen closely to Cassidy, it sounds like Mark is either totally incompetent for the job or having a mental breakdown,’ and the person replied, ‘A little bit of both,’ ” Mulvaney said during the interview.
“So you get the impression that things have really broken down and that Mark Meadows as chief of staff – which is a key position, especially at these critical times – has completely dropped out,’ ” he added.
In her June testimony, Hutchinson spoke of her anger at Meadows’ lack of urgency at the time of the Capitol ransacking.
“I started to get frustrated because I felt like I was watching a serious car crash about to happen, and you can’t stop it, but you wish you could do something about it,” she said at the time. “I remember thinking at that moment, ‘Mark needs to get out of this mess, and I don’t know how to get him out of it, but he needs to care.'”
Mulvaney, who served in the House of Representatives from 2011 to 2017 and as special envoy to Northern Ireland from May 2020 to January 2021, reiterated in the CBS interview that Meadows did not appear to have a handle on the unfolding situation at the Capitol.
“My words were, ‘Is Mark having a nervous breakdown?’ Or is he incompetent to respond or both. That would explain a lot of the collapse in the West Wing,” the former lawmaker said.
When Mulvaney asked what his “turning point” was as a longtime Trump supporter, he addressed Hutchinson’s testimony before the panel.
“For the past year, I’ve been defending the president because I don’t believe his actions on Jan. 6 were criminal,” he said. “I don’t particularly believe he instigated a riot. I resigned because I believe he failed to be president when we needed him to be.”
“But until Cassidy Hutchinson testified, I was defending him against allegations of criminal activity. Again, I know her. She works for me. She has no reason to lie. If she stands up and says the president knew there was a gun, that makes me scratch my head,” he added.
However, despite his high regard for Hutchinson, Mulvaney said he is “not a big fan” of the Jan. 6 hearings.
“I think they should allow Republicans to put the people they should have on the committee – Jim Jordan should be there, Andy Biggs should be there. Nancy Pelosi is wrong to exclude them. It goes against custom and the history of the U.S. House of Representatives,” he said.
“I’ve never been a fan of this committee, and I’ve always thought it was wrong for Liz [Cheney] and Adam Kinzinger to go there. So whenever Liz says something, I don’t believe it. I refuse to believe his interpretation of the facts,” he added.
Speaker Pelosi was rejected last year Ohio Congressman Jordan withdrew from the Jan. 6 panel after disputing the results of the 2020 presidential election. Arizona Congressman Biggs called the committee “illegal.
Cheney and Kinzinger were appointed to the Jan. 6 committee and became its only Republican members.
Mulvaney later said that despite his misgivings about the panel, he could not ignore the convincing sworn testimony of a fellow Republican.
“When a Republican takes an oath and says a Republican president is trying to cancel an election, I pay attention to that,” he said. “When a Republican publicly says that other Republicans may have broken the law, I think all Republicans should be concerned about that. In fact, I think everyone should be concerned about that.”
Informant contacted Meadows for comment.